“Who Do You Say That I am?” — Matthew 16: 13-17 –Part I

by Raymond Phelan on April 9, 2015

enlightenmentIs this The most profound Question in the Bible?

By examining this question, the answers will reveal how we can identify who we really are and how we can embrace it wholeheartedly.

For now, let us relax and explore together this most wonderful of questions: “Who do you say that I am?”

Jesus, a true soul psychologist, puts it succinctly: in which orientation is our Heart set, to which inner frequency is our consciousness attuned: love born of Spirit, or existence rooted in egoistic nature? To whom, or what, do we attribute Love, Healing and Forgiveness? To whom or what philosophical or dogmatic process is our soul aligned? A simple enough set of inquiries, I hear you say.

Initially the question, “Who do you say that I am” sounds like it’s relating only to a previous era, meant for the historical disciples and nothing to do with me or you in the twenty-first century. But, until we pose this question to ourselves then that’s how it will always be and sound: other-era related.

Similarly, as with Peter, (symbolizing lower-nature ego, which scripture reminds us denied Christ three times) sooner or later the time comes when we begin questioning words pertaining to eternal life, immortality, and ascension as spoken by Jesus. We begin questioning our purpose for being here: about God, Heaven, the universe, pain, suffering, the after-life and everything we’re finitely capable of asking. At this point, for sure, many profound questions arise, many vague issues around non-clarified scriptural teachings emerge in mind. While this questioning is normal to a developing consciousness, it’s usually out of lower ego’s concern for its preservation nuanced through fear. Thus Jesus reminded us: “Be not afraid, it is I.” But who is “I”?

For instance, in spiritual terms, how and where do we place or perceive Jesus Christ. Is it as a historical man, a two millennium ago person to be reverenced BECAUSE of his heroic status then, his wise words and miracles, or do we acknowledge Christ as Potential, a Higher Self presence to be birthed within our own consciousness, within our own spiritual hearts? Do we accept the message of, and term, Jesus as a process to enlightenment, or are we fixated on the outer historical image as it is with most of the major religions?

Here it may help if we clarify the word “religion.” It stems from the Latin root “Religire” meaning, to join back or Re-ligire. The purpose of religion thus is to bind us back to divine source. In today’s world of violence and destruction, is religion achieving this? Not in the slightest. I suggest what we have instead is dogma without spirit.

Finding out for ourselves

When put to the disciples: who do the people (conditioning, indoctrination dogma) say Jesus is, they replied: “some say Elijah, John the Baptist, or some other prophet.”

Jesus replied: “[but] what about you, who do you say that I am?”

Peter replied: “You are the Messiah, (the Christ), the Son of the living God.”

Jesus replied to Peter: “You are blessed, for this truth did not come to you from any human being (flesh and blood, or man) but it was given to you directly by my Father in Heaven”– Matthew 16:17.

This was Peter’s (ego / lower-self) commencement moment toward Christ realization.

Without Peter answering as such—ego surrendering—then the rest of the biblical story loses the personally-relating aspect: “Who do YOU say that I am”, for, The Bible is all about YOU, not someone else.

The reference to “John the Baptist” – ‘who some people said Jesus was’ – is to qualify the difference between rising kundalini LEADING to the Awakening Christ. Kundalini is the conduit to Christ, not the Christ — “the One (or State) which follows John the Baptist (kundalni) is Christ consciousness.

Later in Matthew 16-20, Jesus ordered the disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah: “Tell no man what you have heard today.” In other words, in the early stages of inner Christ-discovering, our newly-sprouting positive soul seeds can be easy prey for “the crows of the earth” (negative thoughts, ours and others’).

It could also be interpreted: don’t push OUR version of Christ unto others who may not be as ready as we are. Desist from ego-pontificating about Christ until we’re personally experiencing unconditional love born of Spirit, otherwise, ego seeks to maintain a controlling influence over the soul’s “Revelation” capacity, a tethered freedom, if you will. It could also be, let others find out for themselves, for, sermonized words alone, written or spoken, do not validate Christ nature, each must personally witness to Christ through individual endeavor leading to realization (direct experience).

Acts : 12:16 states: “Peter kept knocking”. Although Peter acknowledged Jesus as the Messiah, it was an intellectual reply, it wasn’t a full-blown Heart reply as could be expected from John.

Peter, we remember, asked the Lord: “where are you going”? Jesus answered:  “you cannot follow me now where I am going, but later you will follow me” — meaning, post ego crucifixion. John 13: 36

Peter’s discourse reply “Lord… I am ready to die for you” John 13: 37 doesn’t signify full integration of mind, body, spirit: the Re-ligire state of being; it’s only the commencement, intentional moment to Full Humanity.

Like Peter, to internalize the Messiah we must “keep on knocking” achieved by regular daily performance of our selected meditation: “he motioned with his hind (commanded his thoughts) be quiet” — Acts 12:17

But then in Acts: 12:17, notwithstanding Jesus’ earlier ordering “tell no one”, Peter says: “tell this to James and the rest of the believers” which seems contradictory to “..tell no one..”.

As mentioned earlier: when Peter acknowledged Jesus as the Messiah, he wasn’t a fully committed (to practice) believer, hence, it was only after persistent “kept on knocking”, of repeated meditation, that, “at last, they opened the door”: his thoughts calmed and he was allowed in (commencement of transformation process to Christ consciousness).

This ‘allowed in’ qualifies Peter, as an integrated believer, to tell the rest of the BELIEVERS: meaning, by our own endevour, we initiate into action the already in-place spiritual mechanisms of awakening kundalini from the base chakra — lower ego was now converting to spiritual ego.

As sure as midday-Sun follows dawn, once our mental processes become familiarized in transcendental nature, transformation establishes automatically, thereby achieve total brain functioning. Thus are ”rest of believers”, or disciples, (within the brain) becoming spiritually harmonized.

Who Am “I” — who is”You”?

The soul’s journeying to Christ Consciousness is primarily one of integration of small “I” into Higher “I” Awareness.

Due to previous lifetime inheritances we’re each functioning at different levels of spiritual evolution, different vibrational or depth levels of awaking, understanding and perceptions. We’re not all seeing the same green, blue or yellow through our standard red, green, yellow glasses. As such, the small “I” perceptions are somewhat blurred, out of sync when relating spiritually to, or identifying with, “You” as in “who do YOU (our own spiritual heart) say Higher “I” (Christ) am”.

In other words, ego will say: I am Catholic, I am Protestant, I am Muslim, Hindu or, I am NO religion — which is still an ego identity label. We may say, I am Irish, I am American, she is Canadian, he is English, they are French, Australian or, we are all one (until it comes to the emotionality of our national and societal labeled identity). But, does this labeling really define us, give added spiritual status? Does it define “You?” No, not at all! Then, who is defining or asserting on “You” our higher “I” identity?

The answer is fear-infestation brought on by accumulations or overlaying from birth by religion, society, parents, peers and dogma-buy-ins, both political and religious. The sum total referred to as, conditioned ego — the world, the illusion.

Formal labeling, and the narrow spiritual overview through which they functions, are THE major barrier to experiential Christ consciousness. Many, as we see in the world today, act out this labeling (as belief systems), resulting in a fictitious “You”, thereby creating a self-identity crises where inner turmoil and rebellious anger builds to devastating overflowing proportions, all to justify, at any cost, the small “I” programmed mindset and birthplace identity. How pathetic is that evolution.

Those who’ve worked at lower “I” / higher “I” integration – resurrection of spiritual and compassion nature — pay little attention to such labels or anything of a false identity nature. Authentically-endorsed souls are almost incapable of violence against their neighbor. Think Mahatma Gandhi, for such is the benchmark approach of Christ realization: Unity through peaceful means within and without — “as above so below”.

Ask ourselves: to what end is MY Christ nature Potential (image and likeness) being channeled— creatively or destructively. The answer on a personal / national / global level is only to scale.

Of course, proclaiming status unto ourselves through the ego only defines our ignorance. Thus our mental state becomes overpoweringly left brain only driven, rendering spirit-nature-relating intellectual rather than heart experiencing.

Thankfully, from a practical perspective, remedying the above is no more difficult then entering into the deep silence of trance-nature meditation, where transcendental “I” is directly experienced. It’s then, when small “I” is fully surrendered in mental silence, OUR Christ answer becomes loud and clear within. We discover that, at non-physical or spirit level, we’re each the eternally-existing “I”, Total Love, Truth: the soul’s discovering-experience of its Divine nature.

For now, let us adjourn from further qualifying the above scripture, that we may reflect from where OUR answer to “who do YOU say that I am,” may be coming.

Where does Love come from?

A few years back I composed some song lyrics about a young child asking its parents: “where does love come from, have I got some, if I am lost, will love show ME the way.” There’s hardly a parent, I’m sure, who hasn’t at some time had to explain a version of this question to their child(ren).

While it’s all very fine to say ‘God loves you’, ‘Christ loves me’, “His love for us will never die”, still, until we can answer from direct experiencing ‘where does the love of God — of Christ, actually come from, intellectual qualifications remain figments of the ego.

To make answering this more spirit-relating, it’s essential to know that Divine Love is transcendental in nature — beyond finite mind / heart. That, to facilitate Divine Love-knowing there are seven major spiritual chakra or cosmic energy centers running along the spinal column in every human body, known as the endocrine system.

The system works as follows. A chakra is an anticlockwise revolving dynamic, or wheel, a vortex for receiving cosmic energy — Christ messaging — which each chakra then calibrates down to serve its opposite gland, to include the brain: each chakra is serving an opposite gland in the body. Such is where the biblical term originates [we should] “honor thy mother”, the physical body, which gives birth to “honor[ing] thy Father” — tangible Love-experiencing via the chakra centers: Male (Creator) Female (Creation) dynamic in action. The physical body thus provides the conduits, the spiritual mechanisms through which Divine Love manifests experientially within consciousness.

[The] Love [of God / Christ] thus emerges by way of the Heart chakra and Thymus gland, not to be confused solely with the physical heart which is a pumping generator for blood circulation. The physical heart is not ever-full of love awaiting overflow.

Consistent expressions of hatred, fear, greed, and all forms of negativity, causes the Thymus to lose its capacity of divine love out-flowing.

Often misrepresented, those Sacred Heart portraits of Jesus pointing to his heart are in fact pointing to the Pyramid-shaped Thymus Gland, source of Divine Love. Now we have some spiritual context to what the Pyramids may actually symbolize.

Higher Heart

To initiate Divine love-flow we must activate the Higher Heart of transcendental You housed within the Thymus gland. To facilitate such a miracle into consciousness, the soul’s virgin status needs penetration: a level of quietude consummation gained in meditation or any mind-centering or chakra-awakening system.

This is the process of bringing Divine nature to human nature whereby, Higher Heart becomes knowable as our non-physical spirit status, thereby realizing Christ nature as eternal “I” Presence within our consciousness.

The experiential nature of “Higher Heart” is Pure Love or Truth — meaning that which is eternally never-changing or Absolute, compared to that which is ever-changing and relative. Both these ever / never-changing aspects make up the soul’s constitution simultaneously. In other words, we’re born with the Heaven seed, but that, such is “birthed” into consciousness via rising kundalini from the base chakra initiated at the Pineal gland leading to Thymus Nature of Unconditional Divine Love.

Similarly, when we say: [I ask this] in the Name of Christ, meaning, in the Nature of Truth, Pure Love, we’re declaring that, Divine consummation has already become Heart-experiential. If not, then such words amount merely to repetition of learned dogma. Therefore, to eliminate repetition of empty soundbites, scripture reminds us: “Do not take (invoke) the Lord’s Name (Potential) in vain” rather “first realize the Kingdom into consciousness” through practice, from whence affirmations become Heart-Natured automatically.

Regular culturing of the conscious mind in stillness (free of memory referencing) kick-starts the endocrine system into hormonal spiritual secretion; in this process Higher Heart nature becomes infused naturally into mind, elevating the term “coming from the Heart” to greater spiritual dimensions.

During meditation the respiratory system becomes more and more refined until eventually the breathless state emerges, when Thymus Heart activity happen into flow. This is not achieved in a single session and the breathless state is not the same as holding the breath.

Of course, it had to be Peter, (ego) who answered as he did.

The surrendering moment came consequent of heeding inner Jesus’ prompts (the process) — not to be confused, from esoteric understanding, with his inner Christ, the “I AM” (eternally-existing) Christ. Peter was eventually nudged to asking the most pivotal of questions pertaining to his / her eternal status.

Not facing this fundamental Jesus-posed question roots the ego in a left brain only hell; from where material achievements and adrenalin highs become our only accredited source of happiness; when denying inner Christ and inviting suffering becomes automatic, as did Peter three times, possibly 3 trillion times, of lower-self-inflicted hardship!

When ego is in charge, who’s counting?

Upon this Rock (understanding sourced divinely) I shall build my church (development of Creative Love) and the gates of hell (ignorance / ego / false “I” identity) shall not prevail against it (Christ-consciousness)” Matthew 16:17

Out of this pebble-sized spiritual ego, transformed Peter emerges as the Rock of Love: Christ Principle establishing through enlivening the depths of our divinity, bringing dynamism to the eternal silence of creative soul.

Setting out to conquer all that stands before egoistical me in attaining material success only in life has its genesis in shallow, ephemeral rootedness which can be all so automatically reactive. On this conquering conquest, no conscious relevance is paid to the higher soul’s journey-needs: stillness / meditation / physical-mental diet.

Through the conditioned senses and minus a moral compass, ego blind-leads the soul into pursuing and maintaining fictitious ideals.

Negative use of the law, “ask and ye shall receive” is now on auto to create further ego-gratifying mindsets thereby blocking Potential, thus justifying illusory existence. Eventually, after much self-torturing, the soul’s encoded desire for evolution kicks back, and now those once sources of happiness, the non-purified senses, become sources of pain and misery, or, payback time.

Such, we may recall, where the temptations offered unto Jesus in the desert.

Until “who do YOU say that “I” am” is consciously confronted then, sadly, it’s Herod, the dominant lower ego, which retains kingship over our spiritual domain and decision making processes; but, which, Spirit (thanks to Peter’s reply) will de-throne with certainty!

Of course, it must be said, if we didn’t know the pain brought about by adherence to lower ego we wouldn’t know conscious Resurrection. And this is true. For, sin — separation from Truth, denying inner Christ — represents our own previously created karmic thought patterns, now needing integration, (a cycle or force needing interruption by a greater opposite force).

But, even while creating our negative thought trenches, the pathway to enlightenment was always in process. Jesus said: “lo, I am with you even unto the ends of the world” — end of personal suffering.

At the quantum level, neuro channels were being formed: intuitions, symbolism and encounters formulated and flashed magnetically into the brain to grab our CONSCIOUS attention; and from whatever base-wicket of ignorance we’re batting at that time, some hit a boundary, others remain “progress fielding”, never to encounter “run-out.” We all get to hit Boundary!

We’re reminded in Acts 12: 17 of Peter walking free from his prison, when the guard, or wicket-keeper, fell asleep, ego’s repetitive thought patterns stilled, brought to the level of soul silence.

Heeding the prompts to mental stillness is OUR “Peter-freedom” moment, OUR soul Boundary strike! And, wow, feel the scintillating joy of OUR soul as WE score Touch Down! Make it to Base! Listen to that tumultuous Stadium cheer as soul revels in the sheer Bliss of vibrating You!

Part 2 will develop the title theme further along with five other MOST fundamental questions. See You then.

{ 53 comments… read them below or add one }

Joshua Tilghman April 9, 2015 at 10:32 am

Raymond,

You really know how to get us to the heart of a matter! Yes, I do believe this is arguably the most important question we could ever ask. Knowing who we truly are is the universal question asked inside of each of us as soon as we old enough to understand individuality.

You have raised some very important points here. The fact that Peter replied that Jesus was the Christ gives the rest of the Gospel story a personal aspect, which is the reason I believe Jesus is portrayed as a historical entity. This is how myth works. It has already been historically proven that even the Greek Gods were believed to be historical entities by the masses, but the educated knew otherwise.

Your post sums of why the scriptures were written the way they were (even though you didn’t directly address this point), which I know that all Christians who have doubted the historicity of some of it such as man talking to snakes, talking donkeys, the sun standing still, etc., have wondered about. Your decoding of the symbols shows us that the allegorical meaning goes deeper than any literal interpretation, and it speaks to the heart if we only allow it. Arguing over whether the Bible is true history or not doesn’t really do us any good. The heart of the matter lies in discovering Christ Consciousness through practices such as meditation for higher awareness.

I also appreciated an important point you made about John the Baptist. You stated:
“The reference to “John the Baptist” – ‘who some people said Jesus was’ – is to qualify the difference between rising kundalini LEADING to the Awakening Christ. Kundalini is the conduit to Christ, not the Christ — “the One (or State) which follows John the Baptist (kundalni) is Christ consciousness.”

This fits the scriptural context perfectly and enables us to further probe the meaning of Christ. Then you set up why Jesus told the disciples not to tell anyone else who he was! It will cause dissention among others, which also has an effect in our own soul, potential leading back to a self-inflicted feedback loop. Excellent point! And the fact that Peter’s reply was intellectual and that he must keep knocking (related to meditation) is another excellent point which encourages us all about the importance of daily meditation.

Your comments on ego-identification are also spot on. The lower mind finds identity through labeling, not experiential knowledge, or knowing, but the higher mind finds unity through experiential knowing.

You also stated:

“Often misrepresented, those Sacred Heart portraits of Jesus pointing to his heart are in fact pointing to the Pyramid-shaped Thymus Gland, source of Divine Love. Now we have some spiritual context to what the Pyramids may actually symbolize.”

Raymond, I had never thought about this point! Awesome. Your posts always leaves me with some unexpected tidbit of knowledge. Thanks for that!

Your section on THE HIGHER HEART should be read by us all a few times over. It teaches us the true benefit of daily meditation practice and gives us the understanding of why we need patience to push through meditating daily even when we don’t “feel” its working. It’s a process which takes time to open the heart and properly integrate the soul with its divine nature.

Great job, Raymond. Thank you for teaching us this great info which is hard to find. I believe we will all look forward to part 2!

Reply

anny April 10, 2015 at 9:43 am

Hello Josh,

You write: “Your post sums of why the scriptures were written the way they were (even though you didn’t directly address this point), which I know that all Christians who have doubted the historicity of some of it such as man talking to snakes, talking donkeys, the sun standing still, etc., have wondered about. Your decoding of the symbols shows us that the allegorical meaning goes deeper than any literal interpretation, and it speaks to the heart if we only allow it. Arguing over whether the Bible is true history or not doesn’t really do us any good. The heart of the matter lies in discovering Christ Consciousness through practices such as meditation for higher awareness.”

I do know that insulting or hurting people is the furthest thing on your mind but you do it nevertheless sometimes because when you get enthusiastic about something, you very often express and stress that by more or less denying the opposite as well, and not as your opinion but as a principle. At least, that is how it can come across to people who are sensitive on whatever the point is. It is not even addressed to people who think or feel that way, but it does hurt them nevertheless when they hear or read it. I think that is what happens to us as long as we have not yet completed our process. I recognize it at least and that is why I want to bring it to our attention.

I do not mean to accuse you of anything though and it is not just you. Undoubtedly I must be guilty of things like that myself from time to time – though I try my utmost not to – but we always see things like that in someone else sooner than in ourselves. Maybe it needs some distance.

Just an example, when you write: “Arguing over whether the Bible is true history or not doesn’t really do us any good.”, then you are right but by bringing it up in this way, and by implying that the allegorical meaning is the only thing that matters, you more or less create the dis-ease you want to avoid.

I would very much like it if all of us would present our truth as just that, our truth, in which we may state what we do and do not believe, but only in a way that does not give others who have a different truth the feeling that they are somehow inferior. They are not. They just think differently and we should not forget that none of us is in possession of the Absolute Truth just yet. We could not possibly grasp that yet. So we should allow everyone who acts in a respectful way towards others to find their own way in their own time without any interference or seeming judgement from us.

You mentioned the historicity of ‘the sun standing still’ in the Bible and made it clear that you do not believe this can possibly be true. Still, a very intelligent, very erudite man with a wide knowledge in many different fields, including Talmud and Kabbalah, and with the intelligence to do research in almost any field he got interested in – Immanuel Velikovsky – thought exactly that. For him the historicity of the Bible was a fact. However, he did not take things literally in the literal sense of the word but researched what they could mean. Just like we do not literally mean that the sun is travelling across the sky during the day, when say that the sun comes up or sets. We do not say so but of course we do know that it is the earth that moves by spinning around its axis and not the sun. In the same way he deduced that, when people had perceived it that way, it must mean that in reality the earth must have been seriously hindered in its movement around its axis. That in turn could only have been caused by a celestial object like a comet or a planet coming too close to the earth. And then he started researching what that could have been and what else that would have caused. And then he started searching for evidence both in manuscripts and myths, of proof that things like that had actually happened. For instance, if it had remained light extra long on one side of the planet, then it must have been dark extra long on the other side, and indeed he found stories about that. And so on and so forth. All of this of course does not necessarily mean that he was right in his theories, but it does show that there are many ways to look at things other than: they are true literally as it is written, or they are not.

I have no opinion whatever about the question whether what Immanuel Velikovsky wrote in his books is true or not. Nor do I care very much. It is what it is. I am very grateful to him though for teaching me to look outside of the box, time and again, to look for other possibilities, and to form my own opinion about things regardless of what other people thought.

Love,

Anny

Reply

Joshua April 10, 2015 at 11:17 am

Anny,

Thanks for your thoughts. I agree. It is just my belief that literal interpretations hinder us so much sometimes from missing the higher purpose of the scriptures, and the blessings that can come with it. But in another sense people are blessed every day by taking a literal interpretation too, as Robert has suggested. Of course the opposite can be true also. Either way, it does a mind good to consider both sides.

Reply

anny April 17, 2015 at 2:07 am

Hi Josh,

Of course the opposite can be true as well, and often is. I was not really pointing at you at all, other than the fact that the way you phrased your view this time showed clearly what I wanted to point out.

And in another sense, we all have to work at it as well not to feel offended so easily when obviously no offense is meant at all. We do tend to see the offense when others write something that goes directly against what we ourselves believe and not to have the slightest idea when we ourselves are the offenders.

I would just like everyone, including myself, to be careful to be respectful at all times towards others in the way we phrase our truth but it should never have to go that far that we cannot give voice to our truth as we see it. We just have to accept that it is possible to see things differently and not automatically assume that ‘we’ are right and ‘they’ are wrong. After all, unconditional Love does not think in those terms.

Reply

Raymond Phelan April 10, 2015 at 3:05 pm

Hi Josh,

Thank you for this most inspiring comment and for highlighting to your readers the Higher Heart section – excellent observation! Your school is so blessed to have you as a teacher and creative influence to its pupils.

If I may qualify the Heart section a little more. When we speak of Divine love, it’s the Higher Heart or Thymus gland element of the endocrine system that’s being referring to.

This is why I think use of a mantra is so beneficial: it brings onepointedness to the intellect in particular — when all fear and mental prisons fall away. Onepointedness draws the intellect back to the Source of thought, to the entry point of Transcendence – when the capacity of soul hearing calms sufficiently to fathom deeper levels of dynamic silence thus birthing the conscious breathless state.

When the respiratory system comes to its lowest pulse rate, there we have blip moments when we become aware that we’re not actually breathing, but that, the Higher Heart has become active, is now pulsing, thereby is the purifying of the nervous system and senses at work thus to reflect the Higher Heart nature into our mind and physiology. Once established, the breathless state will reactivate whenever the mind is triggered either through the mantra or introduced to mental silence.

When silence becomes “concentrated” (not concentration) or made onepointed its spiritual nature becomes a hugely potent force both within and without. Thus we begin to appreciate in meditation that we’re not so much listening to a silent looped voice [of wisdom] rather the soul is Aware in the concentrated bliss of Higher Heart or Christ consciousness.

With practice the breathless state survives alongside the breath state – a mutual coexistence toward soul evolution in cosmic nature.

Blessings, my friend,

Raymond

Reply

Joshua April 11, 2015 at 4:12 pm

Raymond,

Thanks for the additional clarification and info. The points you hit upon are so important for realizing who we really are. It is taught in esoterics that the inflow and outflow of breath is similar to the formation and dissolution of galaxies, and even the universe. We are truly wonderfully made, and certain meditation practices help us to realize the oneness we can achieve with our higher self. Thanks again.

Reply

Robert April 9, 2015 at 10:02 pm

Josh,

Just a reminder. The Greek’s were more or less aware that their gods were myths and so were the Hindu. You use of the word “educated” in the context “but the educated knew they were myths” in a kind of supremacist, elitist way and infer from this that all scriptural accounts are myths and only the “educated” know better. First of all, there were no polls back then to determine what the common people believed versus the educated. You are relying on second hand accounts in a selected group of books by a limited group of biased intellectual historians who wrote what the popular market liked to hear. Josephus is a prime example of a Roman historian who was known to inaccurately interpret history to suit his Roman audience and to keep his head literally on his shoulders. But let us suppose you are right about ancient the ancient Greeks I would personally guess that it is highly likely. Even so, the fact remains that there is absolutely no basis for the inference that this double standard between the masses and the educated carries over into the Judeo Christian belief system and its circles. In fact, the wisest and most knowledgeable humanistic figure in the bible, Solomon, concludes that “All is vanity…. the making of many books has no end…. and is wearisome… so fear God and keep his commandments.” There is not the slightest hint in any of Solomon’s of Jesus’ direct sayings on record that God is a myth and the educated know better. Just the opposite actually. The greatest of Talmudic rabbis also were no dummies, and they totally disagree with your inference regarding the Hebrew Scriptures. Many of them have taught their esoteric system of Kabbalah successfully as a route to higher consciousness, without trying to dismantle the Hebrew Scriptures and every shred of its historicity, and literalness, and they never felt it was a hindrance to higher consciousness. Plus you now have to objectively weigh and consider four posts so far on Understanding Messianic Prophecy which go into thorough detail explaining why there is support for some of the literal and historical aspects of the bible, which makes it unique from other religious systems like the Greek or Hindu.

I agree that people with corrupted hearts in all religious systems have defied their own precepts while pretending to carry its flag. I consider the natural human tendency toward hypocrisy in the descending phase of experience as the culprit, not religion. We are all guilty. That’s why we have wars. That’s why when a politician complains about Christians saying unloving things about him, the media crucifies him for picking on Christians, as if Christianity were a baseball club and the politician insulted their mascot.

I agree we can rise above our own hypocrisy by seeking purification. Purification requires humbleness, openness, finding and developing that still small voice of God within us that is the perfect guide. Meditation is an excellent way to go toward connecting to God within. People who follow this path are going to be healthier, happier, more peace-loving, and more helpful to others. I am not just saying that because of my personal experience and because I want that to be the case. Scientific evidence strongly supports it.

It is the elitism in some meditation circles that I have a problem with. Is this a phase of the ego that also must be crucified? Is it another subtle form of hypocrisy that seems to always want to creep back in where and when we least expect it? Is this the voice I hear that warns us that “I’m sorry, you cannot experience all the benefits of meditation unless you renounce every single aspect of the Judeo Christian belief system, especially that Jesus was literal?”

I just don’t buy it, being coerced to renounce something that has not been disproven by the rules of reason. That is hypocrisy to me. And the arguments put forth to do so are ridden with flaws in logic and reason. I do not think the ability to distort reason is a result of meditation and evolution of higher consciousness. To me, it is evidence of incomplete purification. I will not renounce the literal Christ. The every day meaning of the scriptures warn against this. Why should I believe someone’s specialized interpretation of scripture that tells me to do the opposite? Why shouldn’t I be suspicious of this?

It seems to me we are back to square one in Genesis, when a tempting voice, in the garden where I am doing just fine meditating, says “Eat this fruit and deny the literal Christ so that you will become superior”, a tempting voice that claims God said the opposite of what was clearly and plainly said, and that I as an elite, educated potential wise one are privileged to understand by secret coding, etc., that God really meant the opposite of what he plainly said, if you are smart enough to figure it out. What a ploy. You might as well ask me to buy the Brooklyn Bridge.

Yesterday, after meditating a lot, I was outside enjoying the hear and now of nature when I saw a beautiful flower as bight and yellow as the sun. I knelt down and smelled it. I experienced its beauty and life directly. Not long after that I felt a release and as if my entire body was pleasantly vibrating. It was then that it became revealed to me in a personal way through my spirit for the first time that Jesus Christ was literal and the account we know of him are historical. I felt very light for a long time after that, and I could not stop remembering it. My heart was full with wonder, hope, and compassion.

I know what educated critics will say. I was unconsciously manufacturing this to eliminate “cognitive dissonance”. But let me ask them, which should I believe? Should I believe another person who says the better message in the bible is an interpretation leading me to defy the plain message? Or should I believe what I have come to understand is the spirit of the living Christ within me, heard more perfectly through meditation, which corroborates the plain message, and does not restrict me from pursuing higher consciousness as well?

Reply

Joshua April 10, 2015 at 8:17 am

Robert,

I can see where my comment might have caused someone to think I was being elitist, but that wasn’t my intention. Let me explain. Back then hardly anyone was educated. Hardly anyone read. What I meant to confer is that those who were educated were the only ones privy to the mysteries, and in many ways were the ones writing them. This didn’t have anything to do with intelligence. I have many friends more intelligent than me that believe the Bible is mostly literal, you being one of them 🙂

I highly respect anyone who believes that the Bible is literal, especially when they can make good points to back up their own views.

Your butterfly experience seems awesome. What’s important is your personal experience, and what it leads you to believe. Maybe I am completely wrong, and if so I’ll find out on the old death bed, but I just don’t buy it the way most of the population believes. I guess from my own intuitive experiences (even without the literature I have read), it seems to me the universe works differently than the traditional Christian message has given us. We live in a dog eat dog kind of world. If there is a personal god that created it, we certainly can’t reconcile him with a lot of what the Bible teaches. Even when everything is set right, can you really see a shark being a vegetarian?

For me God is energy that manifest a body through matter, you and I being part of that. There were those long ago who experienced what consciousness really was through trial and error, and they wrote myths to explain, even though they are somewhat coded.

Anyway, sorry if I offended in any way, or if I was trying to sound arrogant.

Blessings. 🙂

Reply

Robert April 10, 2015 at 5:08 pm

Josh,

No offense taken. Do you realize that in your spiritual system in which you describe God as “energy that manifests a body through matter”, that that energy is capable of purposely manifesting the untamed world as we know it with its beauty and briars, duality with a purpose, and a historical Christ who inspires us to accept the deeper interpretations of his teachings that lead us to transcend duality (without voiding the plainer interpretations that lead us to the deeper). Can we transcend duality without first experiencing duality? Would we be motivated to reach a unification with the energy if there were no sharks around. I know there is a part of me that if you locked it in a room with a lifetime supply of pizza, root beer, and HBO would never want to leave. You put a snake in there and I might get motivated to bust the door down.

Reply

Joshua April 10, 2015 at 8:38 pm

Robert,

Good point. That is actually how I see it happening. Without the experiences of duality we could not enjoy individuality, and without those individual experiences we could never appreciate unity again. I actually believe spirit and matter are two different sides of the same coin. Perception is everything.

Glad no offense was taken. That would never be my intention. I will certainly explain myself better next time by elaborating!

Reply

anny April 10, 2015 at 8:20 am

Hello Raymond,

Up till now I read your article through twice, as you use such a different approach to the biblical texts from the one I do, but the more I read it, the more I notice that we feel almost exactly the same way. Obviously every truth is expressed in multitudinous ways in order to enable everyone to find it eventually.

This is a very interesting article, though probably not easy to comprehend for someone who is new to all this.

You wrote that religion is a reconnecting with God, which I have always thought myself as well but never encountered anywhere else.

At most it was said that it meant connecting with God but I think it is important to realize that it is about regaining a connection that we had already before (before descending into the world of matter) but had lost and now are trying to re-establish again. It assigns a positive goal to religions instead of stating that they have been established in order to lead us astray, which I do not believe but have heard and read more than once lately.

As always it was us, mankind, who started to interpret everything from our ego and into our own interest, in religion as well as in every other field of life. But in spite of that, there were also always people who did keep to the original intentions, in spite of dogma’s and doctrines, and who did manage to walk the path to the end.

I am looking forward to Part two.

Love,

Anny

Reply

Raymond Phelan April 11, 2015 at 2:10 pm

Hi Anny,

Thank you so much for this enlightening comment, it’s always good to read your insightful wisdom.

Yes, we have much in common, Anny, and yes, I suppose, in places the article could be said to be beyond the comprehension of some. But, we all have a version of non comprehension initially on our spiritual quest, I’m sure. And, it would be unusual for me to write an article that was not challenging in some way, including for myself to write, as I’m sure you’re well aware from writing your own articles. But, I like to see it as : the sower goes out and sows the garden lawn. Then as the seeds sprout they come up in patches: one clump here and another clump there, until eventually, the full lawn becomes visible — the full lawn seldom comes all at once for anyone, I’m sure you will agree.

Once the intention to spiritual awakening is there, spiritual maturity will find its own level of interpretation with equally beneficial results to the seeker.

The term “religion” in my article, Anny, infers to re unite our core soul essence into Christ consciousness. That, outside of formal religion, we each have the ability of natural re-ligion, of natural soul re-unification to inner Christ by way of meditation, thereby raise our consciousness from natural man to spiritual being. The conduit to this natural re-ligion within is stillness and mental silence or, the practice of inner Presence.

Hope you enjoy part two, Anny, cheers for now.

Love,

Raymond

Reply

Paul April 10, 2015 at 1:28 pm

Raymond:

Thank you for your thoughts in this very interesting article. This is a subject I’ve been pondering over the more recent past, and just today I was led to the Tao (I wasn’t looking for this). I had been thinking whether it is even possible to know ourselves. The answer I came up with is “no.” Why? Because at our core God is what we are, and the natural mind cannot understand this, principally because the natural mind cannot touch God. The following Tao really spoke to me:

14

Look, and it can’t be seen.
Listen, and it can’t be heard.
Reach, and it can’t be grasped.

Above, it isn’t bright.
Below, it isn’t dark.
Seamless, unnamable,
it returns to the realm of nothing.
Form that includes all forms,
image without an image,
subtle, beyond all conception.

Approach it and there is no beginning;
follow it and there is no end.
You can’t know it, but you can be it,
at ease in your own life.
Just realize where you come from:
this is the essence of wisdom.

The phrase “You can’t know it, but you can be it” jumps out at me. I think words and thoughts will always escape us in coming to an internal understanding, and so the natural man, as I believe you put forth above, can consciously affirm Christ, but can never consciously know Christ. I believe this to be a principal reason why the scriptures of the world use the phrase “I am” to describe the power that resides in us. After all, what else can be said about the unknowable?

Just my thoughts. Job well done on the article.

Reply

Robert April 14, 2015 at 9:28 am

Paul,

I agree with you that the Tao contains wisdom that is useful. Written in the 7th century BCE, it describes the intangible aspects of what we ordinarily would label as truth.

Seven centuries later, Jesus taught his disciples that what we label as truth is tangible. In John 14, Philip asks Jesus “Show us the Father” and Jesus responds “If you have seen Me you have seen the Father” and “If you have known Me, you have known the Father”.

The first question we need to resolve is who is Me. Jesus did not say if you knew yourself (the mini-me) you would know the Father. The plain reading implies that Jesus is referring to his person, who the disciples have been hanging out with, hanging on his every word and action. He brings them new information about their world and about matters beyond the natural world.

The second question we need to resolve is by what type of perception are we able to know the Me who Jesus refers to.

The answer to the second question is one of your favorite scriptures, “But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned” (1 cor 2:14).

The answer to the first question is the title of Raymond’s post, “Who do you say that I am?” Peter answers this question, “You are the Christ” . He does not answer “You are a Christ.” He is referring to Jesus as “the Christ”. He is not referring to any other entity but Jesus.

Jesus commends him by saying that Peter’s revelation was not revealed by flesh and blood. No one told him. He didn’t figure it out. He just knew. How did he know? Peter didn’t know how he knew. Jesus, his teacher had to tell him how he knew. He told him is was revealed to him by the Spirit of God. The bible tells us from the beginning that the Spirit of God’s mission was to hover over creation, perfecting it. It hovered over prophets and kings until this moment when it began to hover over a fisherman and follower of Jesus. Jesus then announces that he will build his church on Peter’s example of coming to know that Jesus is “the Christ” by it being revealed to the spirit of any of Jesus’ followers by the Spirit of God. There cannot be a revelation without reference to the Teacher, “the Christ”, incarnated as Jesus.

Why does it have to come through Jesus? Because Jesus is the example of the “uncorrupted” man imbued in full measure with the Spirit of God. It cannot come through the mini-me of his disciples, because the mini-me is corrupted. It cannot come through the three amigos – Raymond, Paul, or Robert – because none of them are the uncorrupted man. Nothing these three amigos can do on their own, even if they meditate seven hours a day, can bring about this revelation apart from the Spirit of God. It is spiritually discerned, and provided by wisdom beyond their physical beings.

According to the bible, it is through this process, and no other, that what was completely intangible may become tangible to followers of Jesus.

Reply

Robert April 14, 2015 at 10:49 am

Paul,

I just wanted to add that the “biblical” perspective for developing Christ Consciousness in our spirits is predicated on being a follower of Jesus and acknowledging, in tune with the revelation of the Spirit of God that is spiritually discerned, that Jesus is “the Christ”. The bible states that “the natural man cannot discern” this revelation.

Other perspectives have often been presented, but they are not biblical, or they pretend to be biblical when in fact they deconstruct the bible which they are pretending to reference as an authority. These may or may not lead to Christ Consciousness, and so they do not have the reliability that is claimed by biblical authority, which references the standard of Jesus Christ as the external uncorrupted template on which to guide our personal exploration of spirituality. The external leads to the perfecting the internal, as Jesus promised unity with Him and He is in unity with the Father. So for Christ to be in us, according the bible, we must have the foundation of accepting Jesus as the Christ. Other ways are not reliable. If you follow them instead, you take your chances. To me it does not make sense to look only within to find the Christ, because I the looker are corrupted and my “within” is also corrupted. There needs to be an uncorrupted external input.

By analogy, I can guess what time it is by looking within. How do I feel about the time. I can ask someone who has a reputation for being a good guesser for their opinion. But to really know what time it is, I need to be linked to an external reference. My watch, smartphone, or computer is referenced to an nearly uncorrupt external source.

The biblical perspective is that the external is a pre-requisite for the internal.

If you disagree with this, then I cannot agree or disagree with the merits of your personal path. All I can say is that your path is not based on a biblical perspective. Is the biblical perspective the only path? I have no answer for you on that except what I have discovered for myself, that many of the claims of the biblical perspective are fulfilled throughout personal lives, nations, and through the chronology of our planetary history. They provide testimony to parts of the bible’s authenticity.

Reply

Paul April 14, 2015 at 11:02 am

Hi Robert.

Of course I completely understand your viewpoint. It is just as valuable as any other. What I marvel at is the fact that there are almost as many interpretations of the scriptures as there are scriptures. If the numbers are correct (and I don’t doubt them), there are literally thousands of Christian denominations. Of course the differences in these denominations denote different ways of viewing the written word, otherwise one would be enough.

The spiritual masters, however, who didn’t feel the need to qualify their teachings or prove rightness or wrongness, wisdomatically (God I love that word!!) leave the interpretations to the readers. Had it been supremely important for us to understand the truth, I believe they would have made that truth much more plain to us, if indeed that were possible. This they did not do. Thus, each perspective reveals the interpretation of the subject. That is as it should be.

You feel very strongly about your beliefs, and put those beliefs forth very eloquently. It shows your passion, which I think is good.

Again, strait is the gate and narrow is the way that leads to life, and few there be that find it. That being the case, none of us can truly say we understand it. I love what the Tao says:

True words aren’t eloquent;
eloquent words aren’t true.
Wise men don’t need to prove their point;
men who need to prove their point aren’t wise

I’ve been pondering this much over the more recent past, and I’ve never been more convinced of this than I am right now. If the spiritual writers sought to make all of there words less than plain (see Matt. 13:10-11), I had to ask myself “who am I that I think I can somehow make it easy.” I am certainly no spiritual master! After much reflection, I think that for all of us this is an exercise in futility. Thus, I have decided to leave things as they are, and continue the spiritual masters’ wisdom of allowing people to think what they want to think, and to believe what they want to believe. I have come to see the wisdom in all of this. Further, it condemns condemnation. If I don’t think I’m right, I don’t have to try to convince you of that. If I don’t think you’re wrong, I don’t have to try and convince you of that. Because of that, we are able to stay clear of all judgments. What is critically important to me is that I stay true to what it is that I believe.

Thanks so much for your thoughts, and for your passion. I truly appreciate them.

Reply

Robert April 14, 2015 at 11:36 pm

Paul,

I would be curious to know what your take is on the scripture in 2 Peter 1:20, “Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.”

Reply

Paul April 15, 2015 at 5:02 am

Robert:

I believe the answer is found in 2 Pet. 1:21: “For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God SPAKE as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.”

To me the scripture is not talking about the interpretation of the reader, but about how the writers wrote it. In other words, the prophecy was not written through private interpretation, but the holy spirit was the “interpreter” as they wrote. What this says to me is that the power of the holy spirit to bring us all into unity is vast, because these scriptures were written over perhaps thousands of years, and yet there is a unity within them that belies all that time.

Scripture says “be ye holy, for I am holy.” It is “holy” men that are moved by the spirit, and I believe the holy spirit to be a power that is within each one of us (although dormant in most of us), as opposed to a single entity “out there.”

Consider the thousands of denominations within Christianity alone. All divergent interpretations were at one time the private interpretations of some reader. Then powerful personalities proffered them and gained followers and those interpretations took on lives of their own. I don’t accept that just because vast amounts of people believe a certain way, that those beliefs do not constitute the private interpretation of someone. A case in point is the genesis of the Jehovah’s Witnesses (I use this example because having been one, I know the history). Nevertheless, I don’t see any problem (anymore) with any of this because we are all seeking to understand, and we are all at varying stages of spiritual development.

Robert April 15, 2015 at 9:30 pm

Paul,

In connection with prophecy, interpretation, and determining its legitimacy, I would like your take on why did Paul of Tarsus issue instructions for believers practicing the gift of prophecy in public during church meetings.

Reply

Paul April 16, 2015 at 2:57 pm

First, let me say that I have no doubt that no matter how much studying I do, when the time comes for me to leave this plane, the sum total of my knowledge about this great book will probably be less than 1% of the volume of the book. That doesn’t bother me in the least, as all I am truly interested in is what I have to do to enter the Kingdom of God. I believe that there are essentials, and non-essentials.

Relative to the instant question, the word “public” jumps out at me. Of course, our foundations for our understandings of the scriptures are different, and so of course we are going to come to different conclusions about much of this stuff.

To start with, I think we need to understand what the words “prophecy” and “interpretation” mean in the scriptural context. As I have not studied those words in-depth, I don’t have any concrete answers for you, other than to say that because my foundation is esoteric, my conclusions, I have no doubt, will also be esoteric.

As to the concept of church, I have done some studies into that concept, and I don’t see the church as a “public” venue (as you describe it). I believe that we, individually, are the house of God, and therefore we are the church of God. I offer the following scriptures in support of my beliefs:

But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. (Heb. 3:6)

But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the CHURCH of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. (1 Tim. 3:15).

So based on the scripture, I consider you and me to be the house of God, and therefore we are the church of God (because the house of God is the church of God).

And then we have this:

“For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body” (Eph. 5:23).

I see the aforementioned verse as very revelatory, and actually a kind of three-in-one revelation: the husband (head), Christ, and Saviour, are one, while wife, church and body are all one. Thus, we, individually, are the woman, we are the body, we are the church. Christ marries the church (thus becoming one with it — not two, but one), he is the head of the body, and he is our Saviour. All of this points to us being the church.

So how do we “behave” in the “church” of God?

“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but to be under obedience, as also saith the law.” (1 Cor. 14:34).

The external church uses this scripture to proffer that women are not to speak in the church, but to be under her husband. I no longer see it this way. What I see is this: We are the church and the woman, and therefore when we go into the church we are to keep silent, because Christ is the head of the church. A woman (that’s us) is not to speak, but to be in subjection to her head (Christ).

As I see it, this denotes meditation. Going inside, being quiet, and letting our husband speak to us. The master teaches in silence, says the Tao — without uttering a word, for he IS the Word.

Now I have not yet come to the understanding about the various churches and what they symbolize (the churches in Asia, the church at Rome, Galatia, etc.), but because my foundation is different than yours, I don’t conclude that these are literal places in the Bible, but more states of being.

Scripture says that the Kingdom of God is in you. In a kingdom are peoples, nations and tongues. All of this is within us.

This is how I see it.

Robert April 17, 2015 at 8:12 am

Paul,

That was a very thoughtful answer on April 16, 9:56 am, your distinguishing between acceptance and tolerance, and your choice not to put yourself in the role of judge even though you may disagree or vehemently oppose another’s thoughts or actions; and that if you do respond then it is a response that is born out of love, the desire to nurture the good in others who you view as wrong, and positive vibrations.

Robert April 16, 2015 at 9:02 am

Paul,

I am continuing to think out your point of view about acceptance of “everyone’s” expression of faith. What would be your take on;

1. Backwoods Christians who mix religion with the very dangerous practice of snake handling?

2. Jehovah’s Witness prohibiting their children from receiving blood transfusions when they might die without it?

3. Racial supremacists like the KKK and ISIS mixing religion with racial persecution, violence, and murder.

Reply

Paul April 16, 2015 at 9:56 am

Hi Robert:

I am working on a reply to your question regarding prophecy and interpretation. In the meantime, I probably used the wrong word if I said “acceptance.” “Tolerance” may be a far better word. Since I am no one’s judge, it is not for me to fight against perceived wrongs. I believe the universe to be very just in doling out retribution for offenses, and that natural law determines the consequences for our actions. Thus, I believe all of man’s juries, retribution of violence for violence, vengeance for vengeance, etc., are fruitless.

A case in point is the Casey Anthony case that was ruled on a couple of years ago. There was much outrage over the jury’s verdict. I had to smile within myself at the outrage because, in my view, regardless of what men think about whether or not she is guilty, there is a law that is going to judge her. If she is indeed guilty, the fact that man let her go free doesn’t mean anything, she will “get hers.” On the other hand, if she is innocent (and that is not necessarily defined by our definition of “innocent”), nothing we can do will convict her.

I believe that every action we commit is a boomerang. Another way of saying this is “as one sows, so one reaps.” It may be many years before judgment for those offenses occurs, but I believe it comes with 100% certainty, whether good or bad. Thus, we are free to forgive those who perform heinous acts. I know I have done things in my life that I wish I had to do all over again. I gave three pretty powerful examples of this in my own experience in my article entitled “The Root Cause of All Suffering,” which I wrote sometime last year on this blog.

Much of what we do, we do because of our ignorance. We simply do not understand. “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.” Also, “there but for the grace of God go I.”

So I see the need not to hold any judgments or condemnation against anyone, but to treat all as I would want to be treated, regardless of their actions. Scripture says “love never fails.” To me that means, among other things, praying for those who don’t understand, rather than wanting to fight or war against them.

Do you know what happens when you fight fire with fire?

When people commit heinous acts against another, they have no earthly idea what they are doing to themselves.

“Vengeance is mine, I will repay, saith God.”

Paul April 11, 2015 at 10:08 am

Raymond:

More of my thoughts on this subject.

I have re-read your article a couple of times, because you hit on some great points, from my perspective, and I wanted to address and accentuate some of them.

You said, “Who do you say that I am” sounds like it’s relating only to a previous era, meant for the historical disciples and nothing to do with me or you in the twenty-first century. But, until we pose this question to ourselves then that’s how it will always be and sound: other-era related.”

I think you hit the nail on the head here. The Bible is all about us, and its messages are spiritual (1 Cor. 2:14), which is why you see the phrase so often, “he who has ears to hear, let him hear.” The way I see it, there are two great lights, the greater light that governs the day, and the lesser light that governs the night (Gen. 1:14), the day being symbolic of Christ (Gen. 1:5; John 1:4-5), while the night represents our periods of darkness. I believe that light to be the light we are seeking, if the Kingdom of God is our goal.

You said, “For instance, in spiritual terms, how and where do we place or perceive Jesus Christ. Is it as a historical man, a two millennium ago person to be reverenced BECAUSE of his heroic status then, his wise words and miracles, or do we acknowledge Christ as Potential, a Higher Self presence to be birthed within our own consciousness, within our own spiritual hearts?”

I believe that until we come to understand the concept and mystery of biblical marriage (Eph. 5:32), this subject of Christ “IN YOU” will always escape us. Scripture tells us in Col. 1:27 that the hope of glory is Christ IN YOU. Galatians further clarifies this when Paul says, “my little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed IN YOU.”

I see the concept of biblical marriage as man and Christ becoming one flesh (Christ is the bridegroom, we are the bride). Nowhere is this more hammered home than the very scripture that is generally interpreted to say that Christ is returning in the flesh. 1 John 4:2-4 tells us that the flesh in which Christ is coming is our flesh, which I find very plain in the phrase “greater is he that is IN YOU, than he that is in the world.”

WE are the house of God (Heb. 3:6), and the house of God is also the church of God (1 Tim. 3:15). Thus, we are the church. We are also called the temple of God, and God’s temple is where he dwells — in us.

In my view, all of this points to Christ as “a higher self presence,” and I just wanted to accentuate that point here.

You then said, “Later in Matthew 16-20, Jesus ordered the disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah ….”

I believe this is also consistent with the message Jesus leaves to his disciples before his ascension after his resurrection in Acts 1, where “he charges them not to be departing from Jerusalem, but to be remaining about for the promise of the Father, which you hear of Me” (Acts 1:4 – CLV).

The Jerusalem spoken of here is the city of God within us (remember Luke 17:21, “the Kingdom of God is within you,” and thus the cities, nations, peoples, tongues, are all within us, as well). It is the spiritual Jerusalem within us that is where the temple of God resides (and WE are that temple). I believe that here the scripture is also telling us to hold our peace about the Christ until we receive “power from on high” (one of the reasons for my decision to cease my writings). To go into Jerusalem simply means to “honor your mother,” which in turn means to “keep the law,” for it is the law that leads to the awakening of the inner Christ.

Thanks for your offering, Raymond. I, too, am looking forward to Part II.

Reply

Raymond Phelan April 11, 2015 at 3:15 pm

Hi Paul,

Wow, thank you so much for both your excellent comments, particularly this one for its wonderful scripture clarifications. It’s just so good and uplifting to read your biblical understandings.

Gosh, when it comes to hitting nails on the head, as you say I have in my article, you’ve really nailed a few scriptures here: I have to say, Paul, you’ve an amazing depth of scriptural insight.

Between Josh and your good self, when it comes to scriptural interpretations, in my understanding book, there are no better two people for this job. I cannot imagine, Paul, why you would consider suspending your writings, your insights are invaluable, not only to this blog, but also to your own blog. For sure the Holy Spirit is with you, and you’ll be guided in your new writings soon.

Thanks again, Paul, for your always positive and insightful comments.

Blessings, my friend,

Raymond

I seem to remember one of your getting over two hundred comments here on SOS. Will it ever be matched I ask myself — simply brilliant!

Reply

Paul April 11, 2015 at 11:11 pm

Raymond:

Flattery will get you nowhere. 😉

Actually, I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your kind words of encouragement, but as you can see from my response to Vern below, there is nothing “good” or “brilliant” about anything I have done or am doing. I do believe I have learned much about what the scriptures are really saying, but I have yet to experience the spiritual power of which the Bible speaks, and so I continue to question my own motives and my own heart. Truly I am in a wilderness period and am awaiting “power from on high,” as I believe all of us are.

We are all men, and we are all looking to find ourselves. That will never happen, however, because our natural minds can never understand God, which is what we really are at our core. I wish I knew what salvation looks like and feels like. I believe it is something I can experience, but something I can never cognitively know or understand. Whatever it is, scripture says this about it:

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him (1 Cor. 2:9)

Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh IN US (Eph 3:20 KJV).

Thanks again for the inspiration and encouragement, Raymond.

Reply

Vernon McVety Jr. (Vern) April 11, 2015 at 6:32 pm

Paul, in your letter to Raymond you seem to imply that the New Testament account of the historical Jesus, as a Son of God, is only a literal portal, or an allegorical story for us in our need to be wedded to our more important Christ consciousness within. Personally, I don’t believe any one is condemned for choosing to disbelieve in the historical Jesus, because we all eventually find our way of growing into and merging with the Christ Presence sometime during our evolutionary journey. And merely believing something has little or nothing to do with the power of realizing something within ourselves. I think what is meant in some of the scriptural words about “believing” in or on the Son of Man is essentially a matter of realizing it, and not all about faith. I believe (or I should say know) that man cannot become a deified creature completely by himself had God not become his own, in the material world in the form of man giving us a purpose and the means to regain our eternal inheritance, before our fall from consciousness.

I can agree that the returning of Christ in the flesh means something to be seen as an anticipating supernatural event, and you reinforce it well by the scriptural tool “Greater is he that is in you….” in 1 John 4: 2-4. And I agree that we ourselves are the church. So I’m wondering if you could agree with me here that the second coming of Christ could very well mean that it takes place during physical death for those of us who are illumined enough with the light of Christ consciousness, waiting “for His Son from heaven.” (1Thess.1,10),…. “and the dead in Christ shall rise first: ….”(1Thess.4,16) …. and “to meet with the Lord in the air….” (1Thess.4,17.) Some of the words in these verses also have intricate esoteric meaning which I don’t think is necessary to elaborate on in this letter. We’ll leave that up to those who have eyes to see and ears to hear.

It’s important to be able to get through the hard shell of literalism to see the symbolic. But no one can ever convince me the scriptures have no objective importance and they are all completely subjective. What is meant by “the letter killeth…” does not mean the death of a persons mind and spirit in refusing to understand the inner, but the gradual weakening and end of the externalizing ways of thinking and seeing. To me I can sense that the composition and disposing of the scriptures were inspired in such a way as to empower the mind to interalize what is necessary for the development of understanding the symbolical. That is what is meant by “he who has ears to hear let him hear.” And even when we seek out and learn all of the [in]lightening scriptures provided for us about Christ consciousness, the mystical marriage and the Christ Presence within, still, we come to nothing that disqualifies us from believing in, or transcending the veracity of, the historical Jesus as a Son of God.

To sum up, I believe, or know intuitively, that the account of the natural life of Christ is the brightest and plainest of all the examples where the exoteric blends cohesively with the esoteric scriptural reinforcements for the spirit, and can never be separated. This is where the essence is part of the literal. Can we really have an inner without the outer? Of course, this is all my opinion, and feel free to take it apart and come up with your own truth[s] if needs be. This is my truth. Paul, your articles are always a blessing to read. In love & light, Your friend, and student of yours, – Vern

Reply

Paul April 11, 2015 at 10:46 pm

Hi Vern:

First, let me say that there is never any condemnation on the spiritual plane. In my view, the concept of condemnation would indicate that there is “someone up there” judging us if we don’t do it the right way. Of course we are free to believe that if that is our choice. I don’t personally believe there is a right or wrong way. I believe it is more a matter of “are we able to find what we are seeking.” Are we even seeking?

Consider the following scripture: “The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, [and] seek God” (Psa. 14:2).

This scripture is repeated in Ps. 53:2: “God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were [any] that did understand, that did seek God” (Psa. 53:2).

This is a great question? What does it mean to “seek God?” Who are you looking to for the answer to that question? The scripture tells us to “seek and you shall find.”

But then it tells us this: “There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God (Rom 3:11).

Isn’t that fascinating? There is NONE that understands. What, then, are we doing here? Why are we all doing what we’re doing? What is it going to take for us to stop doing it?

Please understand that I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything. I am merely putting forth the understandings I have come to as a result of the my own seeking and searching, with the realization that I really don’t understand anything. I have done what I encourage all to do, which is come out from outside and go inside and seek the leading of the Christ within you. I eventually completely ceased asking men for knowledge of God, and went to the source, because man knows nothing. We are all trees of the knowledge of good and evil. I know that that method of seeking God on the inside, rather than man, works.

So I, like you, cannot be convinced by the words of others as to what is or isn’t. The wisest thing any of us can do is to go directly to the source. But as the current subject matter of the past few articles cuts straight to the heart of the question as to whether Christ is literal or allegorical, or both? As we can tell, OUR arguments are not leading to anything truly productive, but only a kind of back and forth bickering that, in itself, is the biblical definition of “sin,” at least in my view.

I understand the scripture that says “when the blind lead the blind, all fall into the ditch,” to mean coming out from underneath blind men and “seek the salvation of the Lord.” But Revelation 3:17, a big, big scripture, holds a big, big clue. It says: “Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.

Vern, we are ALL in this miserable state. It is Christ that heals the blind. Now is this the literal Christ, or the allegorical Christ? Is it both? How do you know? How CAN one know? On what basis do any of us claim to see clearly enough to tell another what is or isn’t? Have any of us been healed of blindness so that we have clarity of spiritual vision.

I certainly have not.

Again, without trying to be redundant, this is a primary reason why I have shut down my writing for now. The Kingdom of God is not in word, but in power. Our words mean absolutely nothing.

Remember that even the disciples, who had been with Jesus throughout his ministry (as the story goes), were commanded to wait in Jerusalem for the promised gift of God. They were not to do anything until they had been imbued with power.

I see all this from a spiritual perspective, rather than a natural one. But that is MY view, and NO ONE is under any compulsion to accept it.

I say to everyone reading these words, isn’t it far more beneficial to go to the one who heals blindness, than the one who merely speaks, and that without any power whatsoever? One of the reasons very few find the straight gate and the narrow way that leads to life is that we would much rather commit adultery with man than go to the source — “the way, the truth and the life.” It is only the Christ that can show you the way. In fact, scripture tells us that Christ IS the way.

It is the responsibility of each of us to seek God for ourselves. I always counsel people to listen to man, but don’t be guided by man. There is a still small voice within you. Find that voice and then seek to follow it with all your heart. However, if you believe that Christ is literal, then go to THAT source and follow him. But whatever you believe, make sure you are following through on those beliefs, and not just arguing about what you THINK you believe.

These are just my thoughts. Be blessed everyone.

Reply

Vernon McVety Jr. (Vern) April 12, 2015 at 7:07 am

Paul

I am glad you brought up 1Cor. 2:9, although speaking to Raymond. I am virtually in love with that scripture mainly because it implies that love is more important to man than knowledge. It’s no coincidence this scripture stands surrounded within the most instructive points about knowledge, that it is the spirit that knows, and experiences the gnosis. The whole chapter shows us knowledge is incomplete without love, and the deep things of God cannot be grasped by the unregenerated natural man.

Another scripture I greatly admire is St. John 14:1 “Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.” I think the word “believe” in certain places of the scriptures, such as here, is mysteriously bound up with the meaning of love. Believing in God, in some scriptures is to love God. How could we believe in God without loving Him? And is loving God also a matter of realizing him inwardly? It’s always easier to give it the question mark instead of posing it as an assertion, which is what I should have done in my premise. Then again believing is used synonymously for faith, without seeing or knowing. Forgive me if it sounds confusing or contradicting. But the way believing is defined now days, apart from God, has little or nothing to do with realizing. Enough said on that point.

Although you never actually let me know if whether or not you agree that the second coming takes place during our physical death, I appreciate and sympathize with everything you have pointed out. Perhaps the second coming of Christ seen in this esoteric light isn’t so important after all, perhaps that too all becomes a matter of individual reality for the person. I wish you a beautiful (SUN)DAY morning. And may this bright blue spring day shine with glory on every one, naturally, as well as in our (sol) searching. Love & light to all, especially to you Paul. – Vern

Reply

Paul April 12, 2015 at 9:29 am

Hi Vern:

I understand the second coming of Christ to be the main thrust of the entire Bible. It is what the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, is all about. It is this second coming in your flesh that symbolizes the Kingdom of God. Christ was WITH you, but now is IN YOU (John 14:17). This is the great marriage supper of the Lamb. It is when the two become one flesh (Gen. 1:27; Eph. 5:32). This is biblical marriage, when Christ “marries” the church (that’s you) and becomes one with it (not two, but one, thus symbolizing your completeness). From my perspective, the death spoken of in the Bible has nothing to do with physical death. It is all spiritual. Nor does the life spoken of have anything to do with your physical existence. It is all spiritual.

This “marital union” is when you — biblical Creation — are complete. Man has now been created in the image and likeness of God. Once you are a completed creation, THEN God rests. Until then “my father worketh hitherto, and I work” (John 5:17). Yes, because the creation (you) has not yet been completed, God continues to “labor.” “Jesus answered and said unto them, ‘This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent'” (John 6:29). This is the labor of God spoken of in Genesis 1. God rests from his labor only AFTER the creation has been completed (Gen. 2:1-3, which constitutes the end of the summary of the creation story).

I completely agree with your thoughts about love. God is a spirit, and that spirit is love. To be created in the image and likeness of God is to be created in the image and likeness of love. Love is the born again experience, and he who loves is born of God (or born of the spirit, or born again). He who does NOT love is not born of God (is not born of the spirit, or born again).

Your second paragraph, if I understand it correctly, is extremely profound, and I would append to it by adding that it is impossible for us to love God without loving one another, because when we are loving one another, we are, in fact, loving God, which is the spirit of love within each one of us (1 John 4:8). To realize God is to realize love, so you are spot on in your assessment, in my view.

Love is the alpha and the omega. It is the beginning and the end. It is the first and the last.

Thanks for your thoughts, Vern. Have a GREAT day!

Reply

Vernon McVety Jr. (Vern) April 12, 2015 at 12:57 pm

Thanks Paul,

I understand how and why the bible is somewhat of a story guide leading us back to our original wholeness, and Christ is the personal guide (revealer) and we are part of Him, as He waits and longs for our redemption and unity with Him. And I respect your perspective that the life and death you spiritually perceive in scripture has nothing to do with physical life and death. In my perception, it does in some scriptures, such as the second coming, and in others it means solely the eternal aspect. I think this is so because death (physical dying) is really only part of the cycle of life. In this light physical life and death is a part, or a preparatory precedent, so to speak, of what we make here and now for eternal life. Even though this material world can be seen to be illusion, I believe scriptural inspiration includes combining pointers on physical reality when eternity and afterlife is the message. The material (phenomenal world as some call it) world is a reflection of the spiritual world. An ancient hermetic saying, you may be familiar with goes, “eternity is an image of God. Cosmos is an image of eternity. The sun is an image of cosmos. And man is an image of the sun.” God’s laws, which are the universal laws of creation and the active mind of God were not absent within the miracles of scriptural inspiration, most specifically the law of correspondences, “as above so below. As below so above.”

Many may not agree with me here. But I don’t write for agreements. I’m certain that as long as someone thinks within the realm of general validity disagreements only show differences of opinion.

I think it’s kind of important to exchange our differences (bickering as you call it) even if they are not ultimately proving solutions for spiritual growth. In the final spiritual analysis our ideas belong together, that is, of course, if we’re willing to see the importance of each others’ differences. Thanks again Paul. As I too look forward to the 2nd part of Raymond’s great article here, and love his present one, I’m glad we are able to maintain our differences within a peaceful and wisdomatic light. And that’s important. Love & light, your friend and student, – Vern

Reply

Paul April 12, 2015 at 1:26 pm

I understand how you feel, Vern. I love your statement “I’m glad we are able to maintain our differences within a peaceful and wisdomatic light.”

That’s the essence of what it’s all about, in my view.

Blessings, Vern.

Reply

Robert April 13, 2015 at 3:34 pm

Paul,

I like your new word “wisdomatic”.

Reply

Vernon McVety Jr. (Vern) April 13, 2015 at 10:30 pm

Robert, wisdom can come to us autoMATICALLY when we put ourselves in a meditative state for grace, seeking and finding our deeper Paul of Tarsus within; i.e. meditative wisdom. Maybe the compound will eventually find it’s way in to our nomenclatures in time. Without puffing and rubbing my finger nails on my chest Paul is right, it’s mine. V

Reply

Paul April 13, 2015 at 5:52 pm

Robert:

Actually, that word is a Bro. Vern special. I love it, though. I think it should become a new word in Webster’s. 😉

P

Reply

Vernon McVety Jr. (Vern) April 12, 2015 at 3:15 pm

You’re right again, Paul, about our differences here. And remember it was you who taught me about the scripture in Timothy “All scriptures are given by inspiration of God.” The inspiration being what we hear upon going inside the temple of ourselves, harkening to the Paul within, our deeper consciousness. And this is where we we don’t differ, in case any one may be interested. You’re a unique teacher, Paul. – Vern

Reply

Robert April 13, 2015 at 4:53 pm

All,

We have had very excellent discussions on an insightful article, and sorted out our conflicting expression peacefully. I recognize that there is a psychological advantage in leaving all religious attachments in the dumpster, along with all the conditioning and associations that string along. Then you meditate and pursue in perfect silence or chanting mantra, a peace and a wisdom that is beyond this world. We know that the apostle Paul reported in the NT experiencing incredible peace beyond understanding. People who have had out-of-body and near-death experiences have also reported similar experiences of non-verbal insight and bliss. It changed them. Some NASA engineers have experienced a kind of Samadhi called “the overview effect” in outer space which either challenged or intensified their religious beliefs, and changed the course of their lives. The best critics with the most sophisticated reasoning to discount these experiences or explain them away with alternate explanations, have not been able to stem the tide of people reaching out for them, wanting to taste and see them for themselves. If the scientific community was unanimously convinced by the critics, then millions of dollars in grants would never have been awarded to study whatever can be studied when these experiences happen. We do brain scans of people meditating. We catalogue each and every detail in reports of people technically die and come back to us. It’s all on disc, waiting for an answer.

All I am saying is I think it is possible to reach out without totally burning our bridges to the good parts of what religion has taught us. Using old religious adages, we need to “separate the sheep from the goats”, divide the “wheat from the tares”, and distill those aspects of religion that seem to work in unison with the evolution of our souls. I do not think those distilled parts will be a hindrance.

Along these lines, I think it is very positive to find new meanings in scriptures that align with our spiritual explorations. I just personally think it is self defeating to use new meanings to deconstruct the plain meanings or other meanings at different levels. It would be better more honest to discard the bible entirely and just set out without referencing it at all in whatever discipline you have found that is helping you, than to go back and risk forcing meanings into the bible to change it into something to justify your discipline or to get others who are familiar with the bible to follow you. I think some of this latter activity comes from being hurt, disappointed, or angered by religious people. This needs healing. Once this is accomplished, a person would be freer to find harmony with all levels of scriptural interpretation, or move on without any scripture except nature itself, or the just the teachings of one’s discipline.

I believe after questioning it for a few years, that the bible is more literal than what I heard its critics claim, and less literal than what I was taught before I started questioning. After considerable reflection and pain staking study, I find that I believe more realistically now in the literal Christ, because of the evidence I have personally researched and the transcendental experiences l have encountered, so that I do not have to rely on someone else’s teaching or testimony to persuade me one way or the other. Having this point of view, I am very cautious when statements are made that entice or demand discounting of the literal Christ in order to obtain “greater wisdom”.

That being said, I am just as firmly convinced in a greater wisdom through emphasizing the Christ within and the need for us to take responsibility to live by it and to use it to maintain a connection with each other and the divine presence that unites us. I believe there are deeper levels of meaning in scripture that propel us to do this, and the literal that exists points us to the metaphorical.

Reply

anonymous April 15, 2015 at 4:46 am

Introductory first lines from the Gospel of Thomas :

The Gospel of Thomas
Translated by Stephen Patterson and Marvin Meyer
(Visit the Gospel of Thomas Collection for additional information)
These are the secret sayings that the living Jesus spoke and Didymos Judas Thomas recorded.
1. And he said, “Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death.”
2. Jesus said, “Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]”

then later on :

13. Jesus said to his disciples, “Compare me to something and tell me what I am like.”
Simon Peter said to him, “You are like a just messenger.”
Matthew said to him, “You are like a wise philosopher.”
Thomas said to him, “Teacher, my mouth is utterly unable to say what you are like.”
Jesus said, “I am not your teacher. Because you have drunk, you have become intoxicated from the bubbling spring that I have tended.”
And he took him and withdrew, and spoke three sayings to him. When Thomas came back to his friends they asked him, “What did Jesus say to you?”
Thomas said to them, “If I tell you one of the sayings he spoke to me, you will pick up rocks and stone me, and fire will come from the rocks and devour you.”

< I just wonder about all of this, I can take and examine one message at the time. Can I make a full story ? No I can not and I will not. Connecting the dots of the scriptures ? Fill in the missing pages ? No I will not.
But I will examine all things.

Thank you.

Reply

Paul April 15, 2015 at 11:11 am

Note to All:

Jacob Israel yesterday wrote one of the most phenomenal articles I’ve ever seen on the subject of Christ and the empty tomb. In my view it closely aligns with this article by Raymond. I have just concluded reading it, and would encourage all of you to take a look it and let it resonate (or not) accordingly.

http://jacobisrael.com/category/empty-tomb/

Blessings!

Reply

Paul April 17, 2015 at 9:59 am

I want to get back on topic here and share my thoughts on a subject that I have already shared much about in the past, but I wanted to hit it a little harder than I have previously, because I think it is important to the subject of who Christ is, and by extension, who we are. The subject is “Antichrist.” The scripture is actually very clear (at least in my view) about what the spirit of Antichrist is; we just have not been able to accurately discern it because of our prior conditioning. I believe it is exponentially more difficult to unlearn something once we have accepted it as truth, than it is to learn something new, and thus the difficulty.

The following represents my thoughts and reasonings, and I hope they are a blessing to you. Of course you are also free to completely disregard them.

The key scripture that is used to show is that Christ literally comes in the flesh (i.e., in human form) is 1 John 4:2-4:

(2) Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: (3) And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. (4) Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is IN YOU, than he that is in the world.

Now if we can get away from all prior conditioning for a moment, forget about what we have always been taught, and just read the scripture for ourselves, I believe we are provided a huge key to just who or what Christ really is.

First, I interpret this scripture to say that whoever or whatever the Antichrist is, it was already in the world at the time this scripture was written, and so I have to ask myself “who or what are we expecting.” You can always find opinions that state that this one or that one is the antichrist. The Pope has been accused of being the antichrist, President Obama (and President Reagan before him) has also been so accused, etc. But the scripture tells us even now already is it in the world (v.3).

But verse 4 is the kicker, and I believe it totally explains what is meant by Christ coming “in the flesh.” I would encourage all of you to read it over and over again until it clicks within you, because I believe the spiritual implications are of mammoth proportions. I’m not asking you to read my words. I’m asking you to read and re-read this scripture until you can see what is pretty clearly written here:

Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is IN YOU, than he that is in the world. (1 John 4:2-4).

What do you see here? I’ll tell you what I see. Christ comes in the flesh, so the scripture says. We assume that what is meant is that he comes in human form, but what verse 4 is telling us is that Christ comes in OUR flesh, and greater is he that comes in OUR flesh than he who is in the world.

Thus I think that it is clear that the scripture is saying that any spirit that does NOT confess that Christ comes IN OUR FLESH, the same is A deceiver and AN antichrist.

Prior conditioning will make it exceedingly difficult to see this verse for what it is really saying, but very paradoxically, the meaning is very plain, even as it is hidden. Just keep reading it until it sinks in.

This is consistent with Colossians 1:27, which tells us that it is Christ IN YOU that is the hope of glory. Further, this Christ coming in OUR flesh, is what is meant by biblical marriage. Ephesians 5 tells us that marriage is a mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

So the way I see it, scripture is telling us that any spirit that does not bring the doctrine that Christ comes in OUR flesh is an antichrist, because Christ IN YOU is greater than he that is in the world. It is this Christ IN YOU that is the hope of glory, and this Christ IN YOU is what consummates biblical marriage, which is when Christ and man become ONE flesh (Gen. 1:27; Eph. 5:31), not two, as it is with a natural man and woman (Matt. 19:5-6), but ONE. This is what I perceive the great “marriage supper of the Lamb” to be all about.

And finally (for purposes of this comment), we have this verse, which in my view completely seals the deal:

The Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be IN YOU (John 14:17).

And so this is why the Paul IN YOU (1 Cor. 3:5), labors to give birth to the Christ IN YOU (Gal. 4:19).

I am transgressing my own intentions to cease all this writing with my comments in this article, but I couldn’t resist the urge (ego at its finest) to let my thoughts be known on this subject, since I believe it to be the absolute most important subject in the entire Bible.

Reply

Robert April 20, 2015 at 12:03 pm

Paul,

The particular usage of “Jesus Christ” is come in the flesh, rather than “Christ” is come in the flesh is a very strong argument that this passage is pointing to “Jesus” as “the Christ” who came in the flesh, not to the spirit of Christ indwelling Jesus’ followers. This is the primary meaning of this passage, that those who deny Jesus was the literal incarnated Christ are in the camp of the anti-Christ (according to this passage). This denial by groups espousing that Jesus Christ was not literal/historical is what Paul of Tarsus was battling, and this is continuing to this day, which is why this passage is so meaningful to us.

This primary meaning does not detract from the secondary esoteric inferences that Christ dwells within us, or that the spirit of Christ indwells us, which is solidly supported by the plain and inferred meanings of other scriptures. But this is not what Paul of Tarsus was addressing in this passage.

My position as a contributor to SOS is that the “spirit of the scriptures” does not imply an opposite meaning to the plain meaning of the scriptures. If you want to oppose the plain meaning of scriptures, then you will be espousing the spirit of the anti-scriptures (SOAS).

There may be an exception when the scriptures are in error for whatever reason – mistranslation, manipulation, taken out of context, etc. This can usually be determined by comparing the specific passage to an overview of the scriptures, comparing to different translations, and examining opinions of expert scholars as to the authenticity of a particular portion of a biblical book.

Esoteric interpretation of the bible does not mean deconstructing the bible, because if you do that, then you end up with an esoteric interpretation of meaninglessness. You would be using the authority of the bible to prove that it is not authoritative. Jesus resisted doing this when he was tempted by Satan in the desert. He did not depend on taking passages out of context in contradiction to the biblical overview. He did not depend on emotional urges, desire for self gratification, or accepting an attractive shortcut purported to solve everything.

I think it would be misleading to say that I am less esoteric than anyone else on SOS because I am careful to sort things out.

Reply

Paul April 20, 2015 at 12:54 pm

I completely understand your position, Robert, and am always grateful for all your contributions. I don’t want you to think I am thinking of you as less or more than anyone else, whether here as SOS or anywhere else. We are all seekers and, as I have reiterated time and again, we are all at various stages of spiritual development. For now you and I just see things differently. I don’t condemn or judge you because of this. I, myself, see things today drastically different than I saw them years ago, and I expect that we all will see things differently tomorrow than we see them today.

None of this should impact our relationships, which are much more important that any intellectual gymnastics regarding any of this.

Reply

Robert April 20, 2015 at 9:10 pm

Paul,

Agreed.

we had some storm come through my area of Durham. Jordon Lake really got pounded with hail and 70 mph winds. Passed over now. My dogs were going nuts.

Reply

Robert April 18, 2015 at 3:11 pm

Paul,

I like your logical presentation of scripture and reasoning. I think it is important for us all to pursue the Christ within as you have been encouraging us to so. Presenting your viewpoint helps correct for a decline in religious institutions which preach only doctrine, deity, and external conformance, with a very formulaic definition of a “personal relationship with God” which is often claimed but not experienced in its full potential that you are passionate about experiencing. Leaders in these institutions like their status of preaching to the masses and are not trained or not aware of the blessings of the full potential of the Christ within.

In my experience, I do think I have come across many people who do not profess that the spirit of Christ indwells the believer, so I would be reluctant to consider most traditional church goers as following a spirit of Anti-Christ. They just tend not to know how to develop a fuller sensitivity to the inner Christ. Unfortunately, their leaders have for a long time discouraged experimentation with yoga or quiet meditation. Some of this may be out of concern that if their members study these things, they will intermingle with people in other religions who also pursue these things, and be influenced to “abandon their faith” or what they may also really mean “jump onto another train of faith. After more than three years of intermingling, I would say that from my experience that these concerns are more or less justified. Because they are not trained to meditate at church, they have to go to other sources, many of which are neutral or negative toward standard Christianity. Some of them tell you not to tithe in support of church institutions, not to believe that any of the bible is literal or historical (or that it doesn’t matter), and not to believe in the literal Christ of the Gospels. And some circles, once having established among its members that the person of Christ is a myth, encourage its members to believe that Christ is “only” within, that one illuminates oneself totally by throwing all religion out the window and searching the depths of oneself by oneself, and whatever one comes up with in doing that, then that wisdom is blessed and automatically “all good” and “anything goes” (often expressed a “each must follow one’s own path”).

If we are to put ourselves in the shoes of the average Christian Minister, we would be able to empathize with him (or her) about his (or her) concern for members of varying levels of maturity mingling with these groups. Especially because these groups use specialized interpretations of bible scripture to justify its supposedly “non-doctrinal” doctrine against standard Christianity , which can easily confuse and unduly influence someone new to this.

The other side of the coin, is that the standard Church has been repressive, indifferent, unadaptable, and often exhibiting corrupted behaviors. These cause members to question the church,

The desert monks went to the desert to get away from the corruptions of the church. They explored meditation and some esoteric practices . But they did not disown all of standard Christianity, especially the literal person of Christ. They did not find the blessings of esoteric explorations and standard Christianity to be incompatible. They found them complementary, acting like checks and balances to keep both on course. They found a way of making “religion” do what religion is supposed to do, bring one closer in unity with God. This is a reliable path, and one that more churches should be encouraging. This is the one I am trying to find a modern context to.

Reply

Vernon McVety Jr. (Vern) April 19, 2015 at 5:25 pm

Robert,

That’s a pretty satisfactory evaluation of some of the alternative groups who deal specifically with the inner teachings of Christianity. And some of these groups are too self-serving and so much against the standard doctrines that their very spirit goes against what the main principle of Christianity is about, which is unconditional service toward one and another. So what I think should also be recognized here is that there are some individuals, who, being brought up within orthodox experiences (including Fundamentalists) matured and enlightened beyond the standard doctrines don’t care to join or affiliate with the alternative groups. They are, according to my own way of labeling them “stewards of the mysteries of God.” They stay within their orthodox fold, more concerned about participating in the interests of people they know intimately.

After all, the scripture states that doctrine is actually for the “edifying” of the church. Sometimes the most “reliable path” remains right within the very same fold that one is raised in. This is what the uncollective individual, rather than what the church encourages. Because the church is commercially driven, and the uncollective individual is not. Perhaps that may be the context that you are seeking to put within a modern light. – Vern

Reply

Robert April 20, 2015 at 11:00 am

Vern,

Thanks for adding your insights to mine.

Reply

Vernon McVety Jr. (Vern) April 20, 2015 at 11:29 am

My pleasure. I hope that word “uncollective” isn’t foreign to you. I’m using it as a counter expression to the common phrase “the collective saints” or “members” that these esoteric churches (groups) refer to as their joining bodies.

Reply

Samual April 23, 2015 at 1:51 am

Hi Josh, Interesting blog. Thanks

I’ve worked with the Christ Consciousness for 5 yrs now full time to be in the soul plane at the seat of my soul with Spirit connection , Since being in this All Seeing Eye knowing and feeling awareness of the Merkabah’s Soul Star’s my charkra’s and Kundalini just dissolved away and there was my 5th Dimensional body template for the true system the Merkabah Soul Stars and the God / Spirit Force this is the true door way to the Christ Consciousness.

There has been much manipulations from the Annunaki agender to attack the energy system and lower humanity’s consciousness so they lose the connection with God/Goddess .

Every spirit has the opportunity to become a Christ it’s a term that a soul achieve’ s not one man all the apostles are Christed Beings . I know many that claim to be Jesus Christ but they all think that there was one Christ and then they think they are the one but are missing the Christ within them which is what the dark agender want so they don’t sit on there true throne with there hearts and connect to Spirit/God.

I AM WHAT YOU ARE AND YOU ARE WHAT I AM
ONE

Reply

cliff April 30, 2015 at 3:12 pm

Joshua
I think you a doing an admirable job.
I confess don’t do meditation; what I say below may appear not to make sense but hopefully if you take the time to read it several times you will see the sense.
The first noble Christian truth John 1; 18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
The home of Simon Peter is Capernaum. (Kapharnaum). Kepha = rock/stone and also perineum
Therefore this is lingam and yoni, Shiva and Shakti. Column and circle.
Jesus begins in Ka-pharnaum and completes the story in Golgotha.
Matthew 16
The story takes place at Caesarea Philippi, a well, symbol of an exit or entry to the underworld. Sushumna is a well or a column it begins in the perineum and ends in the skull.
Jesus names Simon “rock”, there must be a reason and does this relate to the story of Moses when YHWH says?
Exodus 17; 6 Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel.
Or
Numbers 22
7 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
8 Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink.

Matthew 16; 17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed[d] in heaven.”
Matthew 16; 18 The Catholic Church is founded in Rome because of this verse.
Church is from Kirk meaning circle, but the original Greek text used Ecclesiastes. Erasmus and Tyndale translated the original Greek text to mean congregation. Notice how Numbers 22 “congregation” refers to the 12 tribes of Israel.
I will build my congregation, is this the opening of the pranas.??
In Timothy 1; 3: 15 ecclesia Dei vivi columna et firmamentum veritatis
Firstly since we are thinking this is meditation theory we need to understand that to rise you must fall. You would think that creation was preferred to dissolution YHWH is the God of creation.
verb הוה (hawa II), this verb means to fall, then YHWH would mean Falling, or He Will Fall or He Will Cause To Fall. The Gnostics referred to YHWH as the evil demiurge Yaldabaoth.
YHWH can also be yod-eve.
Moses means to draw from water, heaven is water.
Shakti is responsible for creation she maintains her creation. She sleeps with her mouth blocking the Sushumna passage. Creation is maya; veiling, creation is an illusion.
Matthew 16
Jesus as just explained the reason that his bread could feed 5000 people and reveals something profound to his disciples (5 loaves 5 pranas)
12 Then they understood that He did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
What Joshua is saying is that this bible stuff is not to be taken literal and he is echoing this comment in Matthew.
Anyone who as ever read Exodus, Leviticus and Numbers will know they are vile and YHWH is violent.
Thou shalt not kill, steal or covet thy neighbour’s wife. “Now listen here Moses you are very special to me, what I want you to do next is murder all them Canaanites, make slaves of their women and children and plunder their lands.” Moses obeys. Beware of the doctrine of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
In AD70 the Jews were massacred, they were following strict adherence of the Torah enforced by the Pharisees and Sadducees. This is the purpose of the Gospels to inform us that the Pharisees and Sadducees have got it wrong, beware of the leaven. True bread is the 5 pranas.
Pharisees and Sadducees lead the Jews into an unnecessary war following a false God.
In meditation the mediator uses the mantra AUM, which is the divine principle of things/logos. This is because it is thought Lord Brahman creates with sound, Lord Brahman is this sound. To get as close to God; you need his sound, which is AUM or OM. The meditator becomes AUM, Brahman, God; Atman self-God. Father is Atman.
John 1; 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
If the meditator is God what he sees is not God. He sees Shakti (his consciousness). This is Kundalini, but she always appears until the meditator can control his passions and desires (ego) as Kali.
Matthew 16; 23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”
The things of men are passions and desires, Jesus as opened the door of Brahma this is awakening of Kundalini, but she has been mastered with the control of earthly desires. Jesus is re-emphasising “I’m in control here.” They are now on the heavenly path,
Matthew 16; 26 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?
If you cannot see that the rod is a rod and not a serpent your delusional.
When un-manifest energy begins to manifest itself, the first form is always the Linga. Linga is a sign. (Shakti is energy) The linga manifests as a column of fire or the burning bush.
The linga must be the rock. The linga is infinite and infinity small.
Linga and Yoni go together yoni is perineum
Matthew 16; 4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet[b] Jonah.” And He left them and departed.
Barjona verb yona: Dove or vexer
Something deep is going on in Matthew between Simon Peter and Jesus.
In Matthew 16 Jesus gives the keys to heaven to Simon Peter, but in John’s Gospel he gives them to Nathanael.
John 1; 49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.
51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

Matthew 16; 15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed[d] in heaven.”
BOUND here on earth, therefore, it is bound in heaven. Shut. I have loosed it here on earth, therefore, it is loosed in heaven.
When Jesus is crucified they say why do you not defend yourself, he is assaulted, insulted, but he does not react, because to react would show he still had earthy passions and desires. Even the nails do not hold him to the earth.
Father is Atman
Moses asks God who are you? God replies “I am that I am”.
That is tat = Atman: self. This would now read; I am yourself, I am.
Consciousness as manifested to Atman.
Jesus refers to YHWH as Lord not father; “marya” the Aramaic for Lord
Mara is a Sanskrit word meaning “death”
Mara, in Buddhism, is the demon that tempted Gautama Buddha by trying to seduce him with the vision of beautiful women.
Maya (Sanskrit माया māyā), literally means “illusion” and “magic. Maya means ‘to veil’ or is the veil of consciousness.
Is marya a combination of mara and maya or even Mary.
Simon means listener Kundalini is the listener.
Simon Peter before the cock crows says “I am not he.”
Does he mean I am not Jesus or does he mean I am not God =Atman. Has he been going round saying he is God?
17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed[d] in heaven.”
To rise you must fall, creation is fall; dissolution is rise: enlightenment.
Matthew 25 when Jesus reaches enlightenment the veil of the temple is torn down in other words the illusion as gone. He is with Brahman as Brahman was before the Aum.
Beware of the doctrine of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Kharis Cliff

Reply

Joshua Tilghman July 23, 2015 at 8:12 pm

Cliff,

So sorry for the delayed reply. First I must say, WOW! What a comment. I am going to have to read this a few times over. Just wanted to let you know that I have finally gotten around to it and am publishing it now for others to see. I will do a post on this sometime.

Reply

Jay May 15, 2015 at 10:11 pm

My my my….. how complicated the senses have clouded minds. Try these thoughts.
My conscience, is the Still Small Voice, which speaks through my emotions. I choose to
walk in it, or tune it out. I choose communion, or religion and desolation. Life is, but a dream.
I choose, to make It real. Now ___ I am, not my body. I am, not my body. I am, not my body.
I—-AM —- having a physical experience , via, the use of the Mind. I am Spirit.
I and the Father are One. Now___ Lay down your fears, and hear. DO, what the Savior said. If——, you choose it.

Reply

Joshua Tilghman July 23, 2015 at 8:00 pm

Thanks, Jay. So true.

Reply

cliff July 25, 2015 at 3:27 pm

Joshua
Thanks for this.
“Rock” it took me hours and hours to work it out, (I owe it to William Tyndale; what hero)
Maybe someone as done it before I don’t know, but Rock is “Self” some call this soul.
The concept of “you must fall to rise” is important to understand.
Moses and YHWH represent fall. Moses dies in Swadhisthana chakra
Swadhisthana is the high plains chakra one were you can see the path ahead.
Everything in the Torah is in reverse logic. Moses can see the promised land.
Then pardon your name sake; Joshua takes over in Mooladhara chakra.
YHWH will do anything to preserve her creation.

The Gospel of John is trying make us aware of this.

Kharis Cliff

Reply

Leave a Comment

Previous post:

Next post: